commonly used. then, of course, what you find is it is not. "washington post," new york times, one or two times at most that they had ever used it prior to that. john: what is the agenda? >> well, always the activists who are pushing against the food in general. what happened was this comes from a movie. a lot of the bad things in society come from movies. shooting to put out by participant media so there were so proud of this process just amazing to look at. thee let these people and the videotape. you don't dare let anybody videotape anything because they demonized. john: the company closed three out of four plants, laid-off workers. >> in the economic down is far worse than that. john: has not been a single incident of anybody being hurt. and what the industry calls it is just lean beef trimmings or finely textured. no slimy than other parts of beef. >> the company here has received awards for how good a job they do for consumer safety. it was just one constant is a job. john: and that the company is suing abc. i don't like that. that is saying we disagree and you should just shut up.